Nuclear experts discuss safety, economic benefit of possible nuclear plant in Massena
POTSDAM -- Nuclear industry experts gathered at Clarkson University to present a Nuclear 101 forum for residents, elected officials and students alike as part of a public awareness campaign spearheaded by Assemblyman Scott Gray.
Gov. Kathy Hochul has directed the state to develop and construct at least one new advanced nuclear power plant in upstate New York, and Massena, Fort Drum and Oswego are among the primary potential locations.
Gray organized the event much like a previous event at the Bonnie Castle Resort earlier this year, as well as another Nuclear 101 event at Jefferson Community College on Nov. 12.
Local leaders including St. Lawrence County Legislators Margaret Haggard and Rita Curran, newly-elected Massena Town Supervisor Ray Lancto, Massena Town Board member Adrian Taraska, Massena Village Board member David Broadbent and Colton Town Board member Kevin Beary were among the attendees
As part of the presentation, panelists also fielded questions for over an hour from many audience members.
Panelists included Keith Schue from Nuclear NY, Isuru Seneviratne from LucidCatalyst, Carl Prez from Exodys Energy, Youssef Ballout of Kadmos Energy and Greg Lancette with UA 81.
Each fielded multiple questions during a moderated Q&A session and stayed after the event to continue to answer all questions presented to them.
Nuclear means conservation, Shue says
For Keith Shue, nuclear power means conservation efforts can be bolstered throughout the state.
Nuclear New York is an independent, non-partisan advocacy organization working towards a prosperous decarbonized future and nature conservation.
"To me, investment in nuclear energy is an investment in our future beyond energy generation. It allows us to ensure a sustainable future that will allow us to transition from fossil fuels while ensuring we can protect our environment," he said.
"Forever wild" tracts of land would remain that way and habitats would remain untouched as the footprint for a nuclear facility would be "far smaller than renewable energy footprint."
He also said the energy density of the material is a major improvement over fossil fuels as well.
"It takes just a fraction of the material necessary to generate the same amount of power fossil fuels and even renewable energies require. Of the major power sources, nuclear is by far the most energy dense of the bunch," Shue said.
When asked if renewable energy and nuclear energy were in competition, Shue said he felt there was not a competition between the two but rather they could work in conjunction for a more sustainable future.
Job creation at forefront of discussions
Greg Lancette of UA 81 has worked in construction for over 30 years as a union pipe fitter, something that has given him a unique perspective on the benefits of nuclear technology.
Having worked on plants before, Lancette said he has seen the benefits of the technology and its impact on job growth.
In one such instance, Lancette said a 10-year project created "almost 10,000 construction jobs," noting that one complication did add more jobs than originally intended.
When asked about the potential for job creation in the North Country, Lancette said a nuclear facility could bring "in excess of 7,000 construction jobs, maybe more."
"It's scalable based on the technology and size of the plant. If it is a full-scale plant, it could be over 8,000 jobs potentially," he said.
But the benefits extend beyond just the construction phase with the potential for hundreds of high-paying, full-time jobs once in operation.
He said downstream jobs, those that support those positions at the plant, are also going to benefit with even more job creation.
From small businesses and mom-and-pop shops to new companies moving to the area, Lancette said in many cases he has seen hundreds of other jobs follow.
"We've seen cases where 3,000 more jobs are created after a plant comes online," he said.
Alcoa officials in Massena have also cited similar figures, noting each job at the facility impacts eight to 10 downstream jobs.
Lancette said the growth based around a nuclear facility could lead to economic expansion almost immediately and would have long-lasting effects.
He also noted the opportunity for laborers to work closer to home and receive on the job training that would allow them to advance their careers further.
"We obviously want to be able to go home at night, so having a facility closer to home is ideal for everyone," he said.
Safety concerns addressed by Dr. Ballout
Dr. Youssef Ballout of Kadmos Energy also took time to answer a number of questions related to the safety of nuclear facilities.
Dr. Ballout, who has three engineering degrees from Wichita State University, Kansas, spent 26-years at the Naval Nuclear Laboratory (NNL)/Knolls Atomic Power Laboratory in Schenectady, NY where he worked on nuclear reactor design, reactor fuel, reactor structural materials, reactor thermal hydraulics, and other aspects of reactor performance.
During the Q&A, Dr. Ballout also detailed his work on private nuclear facilities and a collaboration with NASA that supported the design and analysis of the reactor for nuclear propulsion in outer-space to explore the icy moons of Jupiter as part of the (Jupiter Icy Moon Orbiter-JIMO) project Prometheus.
Dr. Ballout said many safety concerns, such as reactor meltdowns and impacts from natural disasters have been mitigated by the design and technology used in modern nuclear facilities.
"With a small modular reactor (SMR), you dig a hole in the ground several feet down and encase the reactor in several feet of concrete and steel. It is also completely covered with a berm and other materials over top of it," he said.
That design mitigates the impact of any seismic activity and encapsulates the reactor to ensure overall safety.
He said the safety record of nuclear facilities "speaks for itself," noting that more reactors are online in the United States than ever before with new, modern technology further enhancing safety.
While some questions arose about water discharges from facilities, Dr. Ballout said internal closed cooling systems are now in common use.
"That means you can build them anywhere, they don't need to be near a water source and no water is brought in or discharged," he said.
Business of nuclear explained
Isuru Seneviratne from LucidCatalyst also touched on the economics of nuclear and what it would mean for the cost of power moving forward.
According to Seneviratne, other nations have pressed forward with nuclear tech in the last decade while the United States fell behind and embraced fossil fuel.
He said that means the county is now playing catch up and initial investments will be high.
"The cost per kilowatt hour may start at 10 to 15 dollars with the first facility, which will be higher than what is commonly seen in China," he said.
But as the technology evolves and is embraced, Seneviratne more skilled workers will be available, processes will be simplified and streamlined, allowing for more facilities to be brought online at a more timely and cost effective rate.
He said by embracing one specific type of technology as well that will ensure facilities are built in a timely fashion.
"Sticking with one specific design or technology means we can control costs much more efficiently and eventually get costs down to that five dollars per kilowatt price," Seneviratne said.
He also noted how the development and construction of more nuclear facilities throughout the country will mean more skilled labor that will be readily available to support the projects.
Overall, Seneviratne said nuclear power will prove to be more cost effective for everyone, including the end user.
Nuclear waste addressed
Carl Perez of Exodys Energy also addressed questions regarding the removal of spent nuclear fuel during the event.
In the case of a nuclear facility, Perez said the spent fuel many times "is about the size of a gummy bear," which compared to a fossil fuel facility is significantly less.
"If you took all of the nuclear waste produced in the United States each year, you would fill one Walmart. Compare that to fossil fuels, those facilities produce the same amount each day," Perez said.
The handling of the byproduct is a specialty of Exodys Energy, Perez said.
Coming from a family that originally protested nuclear facilities in France during the 1970's, Perez said he grew up believing nuclear energy was the worst case scenario for energy production.
But years later after conducting ample research and gaining hands-on experience, Perez said he has embraced nuclear power.
"It is a far cleaner, more efficient and sustainable form of energy that will ensure everyone has equal access to electricity," Perez said.
He commented that millions of people around the world use less power per day than what the average refrigerator uses in a day in the United States.
Perez said he hopes to see that change, affording everyone the same access to safe, sustainable electricity.
He said it's a matter of economics in the end and will allow families an opportunity to escape poverty.
But fuel is needed for the facilities and Perez said companies like his ensure used fuel is safely removed.
He said storage sites are utilized in many cases, with transport devices playing a critical role in safety.
"They have gone through extensive testing and have been hit with trains, with missiles, everything you can possibly imagine. They have made sure that they will not fail when we transport it," Perez said.
Baseload stability a concern
Despite state lawmakers slowly backtracking on an "all electric" mandate that would place even more strain on the power grid, Clarkson Professor Tom Ortmeyer said.
An expert in the field, Ortmeyer said the need for sustainable power like that produced at a nuclear facility is paramount in New York.
While roughly 90% of energy consumed upstate in New York comes from sustainable, renewable sources, downstate is a different picture with 90% of all power coming from fossil fuel sources, according to Keith Shue.
Ortmeyer said that figure shows that upstate is on the right path to creating a sustainable power grid, but nuclear is the only way to guarantee a baseload is available.
He said 39,150 MW are required in New York with 40,955 MW available at any given point.
That threshold has been shrinking since 2018, from roughly 4,500 MW extra to around 1,800 MW.
"That figure keeps a lot of people up at night," he said.
Ortmeyer said with such a small surplus, any major change can have a drastic impact like rolling blackouts.
He said for one hour per day the grid is at a peak load, causing the most strain at that time.
If weather patterns change and power usage increases, Ortmeyer said the consequences will be dramatic.
To deliver that power, the grid also requires upgrades.
While the Power Authority has constructed the Smart Path and Smart Path Connect lines, two others are still being developed, Ortmeyer said.
The Smart Part line begins in Massena, making it an ideal location to build a nuclear facility, officials have said.
Ortmeyer said the North Country is well positioned for a nuclear facility with recent grid and infrastructure improvements, something he hopes to see come to fruition.
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